WoW Ironman Challenge

07 Jul

Yesterday on twitter, Vrykerion asked: “How far do you think you could make it in WoW without ever equipping a green or higher item or spending a single talent point?”

I’ve asked myself similar questions before, so after mulling it over for a second I threw out my initial thoughts, “@Vrykerion depends very heavily on your class. I bet I could make it to Outlands at least in all whites/trash.” Which, to clarify, was me saying that I’m sure I could get to Outlands with every single class, but how far beyond that you could go would depend on the class.

We got a few more people to chime in on that discussion as well, during which I accepted the challenge and gave it a name: The WoW Ironman Challenge. Several of us talked about what rules should apply to such a challenge and then Vrykarion made it all official in his post (link in the challenge name).

Deciding to take this challenge means you have to choose your class, and to a somewhat lesser extent, your race.

The Rules
1. Use only white/grey items.
2. No spending talent points. No specialization at level 10. (Regular skill training is fine.)
2. No Primary or Secondary Professions other than First Aid.
3. No means of XP boosting (No Recruit-A-Friend, No Guild, and obviously no Heirlooms)
4. No consumable bonuses (food, potions, elixirs, etc) – Rogue Poisons allowed
5. No enchants.
6. No Groups. (Since clarification was requested: That means no dungeons, no Dungeon Finder, no battlegrounds, no anything that puts you in a group and no grouping up with people to quest or anything.)
7. No Death Knights.
8. No Glyphs

There you have it. No gear with stats on it (including enchants), no talent points or spec. No means of increasing your experience gains or having other people helping you. No items that boost your stats at all, including consumables. No professions other than First Aid.

We’re currently discussing whether Rogue’s should be allowed to use Poisons and whether or not we’re going to allow Glyphs to be used. Poisons fall under the category of consumables, but they’re also the Rogue’s form of class buffs (though why Blizzard doesn’t make them spells like the Shaman instead of purchased goods is beyond me). Glyphs we just overlooked initially so we’re bringing it up now just to be sure we’ve got everything covered. Updated with the answers to these questions. Rogue poisons will be allowed. Glyphs will not be allowed.

Initial Thoughts
My first thought with this was Troll Hunter. Hunter being the top choice because you can kite for days while dealing solid damage which can pretty well negate all of the disadvantages of taking the challenge in the first place. Troll because they deal extra damage to beasts as well as having increased regeneration which would further increase the advantages while minimizing the disadvantages.

I don’t think there’s an easier choice available for a challenge like this. Pet classes have a clear advantage since the pet can make up for some of your loss of damage, while also adding a level of defense. Casters would follow next, and melee bringing up the rear.

Horde racial abilities would be more helpful as they increase damage output. Some Alliance racials could prove rather useful, Draenei healing and Night Elf defenses in particular.

I’ve had a fair amount of information concerning races on this blog over the years, and my time spent with twinks has made my racial min/maxing second nature. Generally speaking, Horde races have aggressive racial abilities that would help them in this challenge by adding power in combat that is otherwise lacking from gear without any stats. Alliance races typically have defensive racial abilities that would help them in the opposite manner, helping them survive the longer encounters.

Without going too much into detail, let’s look at the advantage that each race would bring to this particular challenge:

Draenei: +1% Hit, 20% heal over 15 seconds,
Dwarf: +1% Crit with guns, 10% damage reduction that also removes poison/disease/bleed effects
Gnome: +5% mana pool
Human: +3% Spirit
Night Elf: -2% chance of being hit, Shadowmeld to allow combat reset
Worgen: +1% crit

Blood Elf: Defensive silence that also restores 6% mana or 15 Rage/Focus/Energy
Goblin: +1% Haste, can launch a rocket to deal ranged Fire damage
Orc: Increased Attack Power and Spell Power for 15 seconds, +5% pet damage
Tauren: +5% Health, 2 second AoE stun
Troll: +5% damage to beasts, +1% crit with bows/thrown, +10% health regeneration, +20% haste for 10 seconds
Undead: Restore 35% health and mana by consuming a corpse

The racial traits I listed are ones that help with this challenge in particular by providing stats you otherwise don’t have access to because of the gear restrictions, or which provide a benefit which can make up for that lack of gear-based stats.

Class choice is the most important piece of this puzzle. Choosing the right class can make this challenge much less challenging while choosing the wrong class can make it very difficult. In general, pet classes will have the most advantage followed by casters and then melee classes.

Pet classes (Hunters and Warlocks) have an advantage not only because they have a pet adding to their damage dealing or which can take hits for them, but also because they are more easily able to kite mobs which will allow them to eventually kill the targets no matter how low their own defenses may be. The Hunter is the top dog here because their spells are based on Focus, rather than mana, which restores itself over time which means that they can literally kite a mob for as long as it take them to kill it.

Casters have an advantage over melee because their damage is only based on their stats, both for the power of the spells as well as how many times they can cast it from a limited mana pool. Melee classes still have their power based on their stats, but their damage is based very strongly on their weapon damage. For some level ranges that’s not going to be much of an issue, but in the second half of Vanilla content some classes are extremely limited in their weapon selection for this challenge, which is going to make those level ranges significantly more difficult than they otherwise would be.

Druid: great versatility, great healing, good kiting, decent crowd control
Hunter: fantastic kiting, pet assistance, non-stat-based energy source
Mage: some kiting ability, great crowd control, “free” damage via Arcane Missiles, good buff spells
Paladin: great healing, great buff spells
Priest: great buffs, great healing, poor mana management
Rogue: good survivability, non-stat energy source
Shaman: good heals, great buffs, best stat versatility
Warlock: pet class, great crowd control, somewhat easily renewable energy source
Warrior: non-stat energy source, “free” healing, good buffs

My thoughts on how these classes are ranked, from easiest to hardest: Hunter, Warlock, Druid, Mage, Shaman, Warrior, Paladin, (Death Knight), Rogue, Priest.

I put the DK in there, even though we’ve disqualified them, because I think that’s where they would stand if you were to immediately replace all of their gear with grey/white items after rolling them and before doing any quests.

Last night I did a little research on weapons, looking primarily at ranged weapons for Hunters and at interesting items I could use in slots such as jewelry. I had both better and worse results that I had expected going in.

For most classes, the weapon you use is going to be pretty key to your performance; casters being the exception. I knew going into it that low level white/grey weapons would be pretty easy to find because that’s what most of the gear at that level is until you start getting into greens and then blues from dungeon drops. I wasn’t expecting their availability to drop quite so drastically in the 30’s though.

Ranged weapons are pretty common up to level 31 at which point they become nearly non-existent until you reach Outlands. From level 31-59 there are only four ranged weapons available, and all four of them are trash items that drop from mobs, and the only one that has more than a 4% drop rate only has a higher (7%) drop rate if you kill elite mobs for it.

Once you get to level 60 you can buy a weapon that should serve just fine through all of the Outlands content, and other vendor weapons open up at 70 to get you through most of Wrath content. The best ranged weapons you can get for this challenge come from Cataclysm dungeons and raids, and can be equipped at level 74. They offer almost twice the DPS of everything you can get in Wrath content (101.6 DPS vs. 55.9). The bad news is, those level 74 trash drops are the best option you’ll have for the rest of the challenge.

I haven’t had a chance yet to do my research on the other classes, but I’ll get there before too long. For casters I’ll be looking at armor since weapons will be nearly pointless for all of them (Shaman and Druids being the exception). For melee classes I’m looking mostly at weapons since they are key.

Now You Tell Me
While my initial thoughts were to roll a Troll Hunter to overcome as much of the challenge’s pitfalls as I could, I’ve not actually decided what I’m going to roll for this challenge. I’m not sure yet whether I’m only going to do this once, or if I’m going to do it on multiple toons, either. Maybe I should go with the Hunter to see the challenge on easy mode and do another class as well to see just how hard it can really be.

I want your opinions on this challenge, though. What do you think will be good race and class combinations for this challenge? What combinations would you like to see me attempt with this? If you’re going to join in the fun, what combination(s) are you going to try out yourself?

I wouldn’t mind doing this on more than one toon, as I think it’s an interesting way to level the character that can show you how powerful a class truly is, or isn’t.

If you decide to join us in the Ironman Challenge, keep us informed of your progress through comments, email, twitter, or a blog of your own if you have one. I’m also opening my Notebook to anyone who accepts the challenge and would like to guest post their experiences with it here on my blog.



72 responses to “WoW Ironman Challenge

  1. Toliman

    July 7, 2011 at 10:54 AM

    I’ve seen better challenges ,

    Namely, the eternal, ie level as far as you can without dying. No assists, no groups, no guilds, just a race on a PvP server to get to 85 without dying, checked by armory stats.

    Second, leveling via battleground queues, no quest or boa or boe gear beyond what is found in a BG quest or vendor

    Third, no questing, checked against armory at 85.

    Fourth, the pacifist, zero kills or honor kills, again, checked on armory at 85

    First to Get to 85, or last person to give up, wins

    • Psynister

      July 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM

      “Better” is a matter of opinion.

      I thought about the literal ironman (no deaths, dead means dead) when we started talking about it. The one thing I don’t like about doing that is that some deaths are completely out of your control. You get hit with lag or get disconnected and you can die with no fault of your own. Because of that I didn’t bring it up, though I did consider it several times. I liked that style of play in Diablo 2, so I am a fan.

      I’ve been talking with another person on twitter this morning about the PvP challenge, allowing only gear from honor vendors, as well as an LFG version where you can’t equip anything except for what drops for you (no BoA’s there either).

      Leveling without questing isn’t much of a challenge: gathering professions, archeology, PvP and LFG make doing that a breeze. It does take longer for some levels, but there’s not a whole lot of actual challenge there. Also, the armor falsely reports some quests being done for some classes. Roll a new toon, get them to 10 without any quests and go check it, you’ll see that you’ve done some even though you never did.

      The pacifist is the same way, minus the PvP/LFG. It’s not so much challenging as it is time consuming. Not to say it isn’t a challenge to do it, just that most of the actual challenge is the time restraint and avoiding mobs.

    • Greygamer

      July 8, 2011 at 12:29 AM

      Toliman’s ‘challenges’ are more about time investment.
      The eternal – just do cooking and fishing dailies
      BG queues – just play the odds as you will win some BGs regardless of your individual performance, although of the challenges given this is probably the best
      No questing – grind mobs, so just slow
      Pacifist – levelling by gathering
      First to 85 – won by whoever has the most free time

  2. Pilfkin

    July 7, 2011 at 11:07 AM

    I like this as an idea, I like it a lot! I don’t think I need more alts *sniffle* but when I decide I do I may well give this a go! Looking forward to yours (and others) progress updates!

    • Psynister

      July 7, 2011 at 11:16 AM

      Everybody needs more alts. Even those sitting at the 50/account limit right now. There’s always room for one more! (even if it means deleting one, first) ;)

      • Pilfkin

        July 8, 2011 at 1:39 AM

        Ok – you got me with the “there is always room for one more alt” thing. And I’m intriegued as to whether I have enough patience to try pacifistic levelling! Thanks for the last bit of push I needed!

        • Psynister

          July 8, 2011 at 8:11 AM

          If you ever need a push to roll another alt, you can count on me!

  3. Matty

    July 7, 2011 at 11:12 AM

    Fantastic challenge idea! I’m not sure of Toliman’s “better” challenge comment; I think all creative ideas and frameworks have merit. It’s the emergent behaviors of the players of WoW I find most ingtriguing. Anyway, perhaps a few Malaysian hackers and my true readers will see this link:

    • Psynister

      July 7, 2011 at 11:31 AM

      Thank you for the link, Matty. :)

      • Matty

        July 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM

        And that would be “intriguing.” Sheesh. Marks of the World Tree are affecting my spelling.

  4. Matojo

    July 7, 2011 at 11:52 AM

    Any challenge is a good thing – it adds to the fun factor of WoW, IMO, and saying one challenge or another is “better” is pointless. :P

    I might try this as an undead warrior (me + warriors = <3) or warlock of some kind, but I'm undecided. I have so many alts as it is. I do look forward to seeing what other folks do with this, though.

    • Psynister

      July 7, 2011 at 12:35 PM

      That’s about where I am right now as well. I have so many alts that I’m doubling up no matter what I do (except hunter). There’s also the thought of which server to do it on, existing or new. If I do it on a new server then I’m going to have to transfer them at some point, or just delete and forget them. Which doesn’t bother me too much, but still.

      The undead cannibalize racial is amazing. It might have a 2 minute cooldown, but that sucker is beast. Add that to Victory Rush and I don’t think you’ll have any problems at all.

  5. Vrykerion

    July 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM

    I have a dream, Psyn. I have a dream that we can dispel myths about gear and ilevels. That little undergeared boys and little undergeared girls can join together in the great LFD of life and still have fun. That one day people will realize that you don’t need a +6 vorpal blade to slay the BBEG, just a little know how and some creativity.

    Okay, to be fair, like NONE of that is going to happen, but this is gonna be a blast nonetheless, amirite?

    • Psynister

      July 7, 2011 at 12:36 PM

      lol – Indeed, it shall be!

    • Matty

      July 7, 2011 at 4:52 PM

      Vrykerion: I love your vision of Azerothian utopia!

  6. Gaia

    July 7, 2011 at 4:45 PM

    Sounds like an interesting challenge that I wish I had some extra hours in my life for.

    Some questions to consider:

    Are you allowed to spec your pet as a hunter?

    Are you allowed to send the character items/gold (that fall within the outlines above) from one of your “main” characters, or do they have to obtain/acquire all of their items themselves?

    “No groups” –> is this restricted to joining a party with someone? Does receiving unsolicited assistance from someone disqualify you? What if it is “solicited” but doesn’t involve joining a party with the other person? If I tag a mob and then let someone else kill it, is that bad? If I let someone else aggro something and then swoop in and grab the quest item, is that ok (within the rules of the challenge, not as a moral question) —- Clearly most of this is likely to just come down to “the spirit of the game” and I’m just being far too overly analytical.

    My vote would be on a druid. With no talents and essentially no gear, they have the most versatility I think. Take a Night elf and you can even drop combat if things go south and sprint isn’t available. I think it would be much more interesting to see the “hardcore” version of the same challenge where you aren’t allowed to let your character die. While the lag issues are always a rogue element for something like that, there is a lot that you can do to “play it safe” and drastically reduce the chance of finding yourself in a position where getting a bad lag spike will kill you.

    • Psynister

      July 7, 2011 at 7:10 PM

      Pet specs weren’t mentioned…I would say they’re allowed as that’s a feature of your class similar to us allowing the Rogues to use poison.

      Sending items/gold is a personal preference. Most of the people doing it are going to start over fresh on a new server so that they have to do it all completely solo. Personally, I’m probably going to do it on a current server and go ahead and send over some of the items just because I don’t feel like bothering with the AH to get gold for the character to buy stuff. It’s just an extra little hassle that doesn’t offer much challenge to me when the most expensive items are going to cost you about 10g.

      No groups means all groups, at all. If you’re questing and someone comes over and kills things you’ve already tagged, big deal, it happens. If you see someone struggling with a quest because they can’t kill an elite, offer them help but don’t do it in their party so that they get your help but you get no reward for it. If you find a quest is too hard and need help, I’d say in the spirit of the competition that you abandon the quest or do others until you’ve gained some more levels and/or have acquired better gear. The challenge is to see if you can level with the given restrictions, so asking for help is sort of like throwing in the towel and saying you can’t handle it.

      Druids have a ton of versatility, and I think they’ll do great with this challenge. I ranked the Paladin pretty low on my list, but it seems they’re the favored class from the people who replied on Twitter, so who knows just how right or wrong I might turn out to be?

      Thank you for the comment, Gaia, and if you do join in with us please return from time to time to let us know how you’re doing with it. :)

    • Vrykerion

      July 7, 2011 at 7:56 PM

      The Pet Spec thing I’d say is personal choice, same as having financial back up from another toon. If you wanna go Super-Uber-Hardcore-Extreme-This-One-Goes-To-Frickin-12, don’t use pet talents/extra money. If you wanna stick with turning it just to 11, go ahead. :P I wouldn’t say it violates the challenge though.

      So glad to see so many jumping in on this! :D

  7. Döra

    July 8, 2011 at 12:08 AM

    Hi There Psynister Döra/Thriftee here.

    Found this via Ironyca –> Vrkerion :) Am so looking forward to see how you go with this, and am seriously considering having a go, but unfortunately, right now I don’t have much time. I really disagree with Toliman’s “I’ve seen better challenges”. It’s all a matter of viewpoint. To some people unless you try the virtually impossible then it’s a waste of time, only I don’t see them trying the challenges themselves – it’s easy to talk from the sidelines, and put down other’s achievements. Lets face it – with something like this, you are challenging yourself not the Wow community in general.

    Personally, I would never try for a ‘no deaths’ challenge simply because I die all the time – lol. I got used to it on Döra (2300 when I got Explorer in WotLK), and tried to die as little as possible on Thriftee because of the loss of durability and being unable to repair. But as I can’t kite to save my life, I can honestly say that even playing normally I am always dead before I hit level 10, so no no-deaths for me ever. I do these sorts of things for fun, not to show what a good player I am, because a ‘good’ player in the gaming world sense, I am most definitely not, and never likely to be. But who cares? I certainly don’t. But I do have imagination & that’s what I like – people with the dare to dream attitude!

    I was particularly interested in the research you did on ranged weapons. I did Thriftee with virtually no advance research, and can tell you that when I hit Outland I had big trouble with lack of ranged weapons, although that was lack of quest reward weapons. I take it you are only allowed to use white or grey weapons? Interesting!

    Will be following this with great interest, and if I could find the time I would give this a go myself. Really interesting challenge and I just know you are gonna have so much fun with this :D

    PS. Gonna do a follow up blog post on this soon – it’s just too good a subject to pass up on and a story close to my own heart.

    Good Luck!

    • Psynister

      July 8, 2011 at 8:52 AM


      I had just found out about your characters and challenges yesterday from reading Vry’s post or we might have had something like this a long time ago.

      I’ve got the research done now on ranged weapons, two-handed weapons, and one-hand/dagger weapons. The trend is that somewhere in the 30’s or 40’s the white weapons you can purchase from a vendor for your combat style go away and don’t show up again until either Outlands or Northrend. The only option then is trash items which have a very low drop rate which you aren’t (likely) going to find on the AH since they’re trash items.

      In the case of 2H weapons, Outlands vendors don’t offer one at all, so you’ll have to switch to one-hands if you want to increase your damage, or push on to level 70 to get an upgrade. And 30 levels is a heck of a wait for a weapon upgrade. Every item you can equip in this challenge has to be either grey or white quality, including the weapon, and that’s where a big part of the challenge is.

      One of the “problems” people see with leveling in the game right now is that it’s too fast/easy, which is mostly related to how much damage you do and how much bonus experience you can get. If we weren’t so darn overpowered and didn’t have all of those experience bonuses then we wouldn’t level so fast in so short a time. We’re not just taking some of that away here, we’re completely blowing it away and forcing ourselves to be underpowered instead of simply weaker than we could be.

      Now you’ll have to learn how to play to the strengths of your class to overcome the mobs you’re facing instead of relying on how powerful you are because of your gear or your spec – because your gear isn’t powerful at all and you don’t have a spec.

  8. Mimfollee

    July 8, 2011 at 7:32 AM

    Hiya, i love questing and i think I might answer your challenge, dont have a blog so will do a link here for my toons armory once i set it all up :)

    I am leaning toward warlock since i already have too many hunters, and thus hunter is not a challenge. Now doing a fear and aggroing 5 more mobs than needed will be a challenge.

    • Psynister

      July 8, 2011 at 8:13 AM

      I had that very same thought when I considered Warlock.

      You keep me updated, and I’ll keep everyone else updated. :)

  9. tomeoftheancient

    July 8, 2011 at 2:58 PM

    Oh no, I don’t think I’m going to be able to resist. I first read of the Ironman Challenge on Vrykerion’s site. It really appealed to me but I thought no, I must resist. Then I read the great post about it at Ironyca Stood in the Fire, hmmmm, darn, maybe just one more alt wouldn’t hurt.

    Now I just have to decide on race/class. Thanks! This should be fun!

    • Psynister

      July 8, 2011 at 3:34 PM

      Alts are like ice cream, there’s always room for a little bit more. ;)

  10. tinkerpriest

    July 9, 2011 at 9:35 PM

    This is tempting, although I’m not sure what I’ll do without my beloved Glyph of Levitate…

    • Psynister

      July 10, 2011 at 10:45 AM

      Indeed. Now if only Blizzard would just get rid of reagents all together. This isn’t old school D&D we’re playing here.

  11. Imraith Dos Santos

    July 24, 2011 at 8:16 AM

    Update: Sallyogreydy, The Grey Priest, has reached Level 28!

  12. shawndrakai

    August 1, 2011 at 5:02 PM

    Started last month on Ferrolina. Sure is making the game a little more interesting :)

    • Psynister

      August 2, 2011 at 8:29 AM

      That’s what we’re going for. Kicking it up a notch in the interesting/entertainment department.

      Good luck!

  13. Kallixta

    August 12, 2011 at 2:44 PM

    I wasn’t following any particular challenge when I started leveling my bank alt using only the Fishing/Cooking dailies, but that’s sort of what has happened.

    I’m not bothering to hold myself to only those dailies. For example, as a scribe, I’m happy to turn in a low-level Darkmoon deck quest (and post the resulting item on the AH) and I’d do any holiday quests that don’t take me too far out of a capital. However as a Mage with Teleport, you can bet I’ll be doing those Pilgrim’s Bounty quests!

    While one of these dailies earns two bubbles at level 25, that contribution shrinks over time. I’d hate to think how long between dings when level 50…

    • Psynister

      August 12, 2011 at 3:39 PM

      My brother in law did something similar to that, except that he did it on two computers at once with accounts utilizing Recruit A Friend. He leveled 30 some odd toons from 1-60 doing that each day while he did actual questing on other pairs with the rest of his play time.

  14. nokills

    August 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM

    Im getting into the leveling Challage thing at the moment, I think this one is Great.
    Im personally going 1-85 (Diablo 2 style) “Hardcore” Pacifist.
    0 kills
    0 quests
    0 deaths
    trying to do 0 damage done aswell (but this is flexible from misclicks), fresh server trying to find money to learn Herbalism with no support is fun, sold my weapon and hunting for crates of food 6 copper to go, just dinged level 2 and will be updating the blog shortly about that, if you want to drop by and check it out im at

  15. nokills

    August 16, 2011 at 8:20 AM

    and for some reason my spelling just failed^

  16. Döra

    August 23, 2011 at 5:31 PM

    Hi Pysnister – just letting you know I just got to 50 on my Ironman Rogue, and am having lots of fun with this and I’m now in the phase of no weapon upgrades till I hit outland so wish me luck :)

    Just wondering – what’s your opinion on the best poisons for this stage of the challenge? Can’t make my mind up whether instant (on both weapons) or wound is better. Could do with someones input who does a bit of theory crafting. If I had a spec I would know which is best – without talents it’s more difficult to determine.

  17. Wowopa (@wowopa)

    August 24, 2011 at 4:01 PM

    At first, I thought; “Nah, I don’t have time for this” BUT I keep coming back to this challenge to see how it’s coming along and read what other people are doing. Now I find myself actually considering it, as I too can never have too many alts. ;-) Since Sharpening Stones/Weightstones are not an enchant and are temporary in nature (like poisons) are they permitted? I see that stat-boosting via food buffs are not allowed, but I’m curious about the stones in case I take this up. Thanks :)

  18. Matty

    October 7, 2011 at 9:08 AM

  19. @misterwinoe

    November 14, 2011 at 9:08 PM

    This looks awesome, gonna start it up tomorrow and see what I can do, Hunter seems like a really good choice, I play mostly on a normal or RP server so the other faction isnt much of an issue. I think once you hit Outlands thats gonna be the bad time. Orc seems like a good choice for Hunter for additional pet damage, or even for Lock.

  20. Michael

    February 26, 2012 at 4:48 PM


    • Psynister

      February 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM

      Good luck, Michael. Keep us updated on your progress.

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